Interview by Randy Waage
randy@retrocrush.com

What a thrill to talk to Cindy Morgan, who played two of the most diverse and iconic sex symbols of the early 80s as circuit laden Yori in TRON, and the insanely gorgeous Lacey Underall in one of the world's greatest comedies, CADDYSHACK.  Cindy indulged our inner geek and gave us so much background dirt on both films, it was like getting our own exclusive DVD commentary tracks. 

I did about five minutes of modeling and I was sent to Los Angeles for a job.

When you grow up in Chicago and you get off the plane in Los Angeles I can’t even tell you the kind of impression that makes. Moving to LA seemed like the right thing to do.

I was never overly satisfied with the 12 years of Catholic school I had in Chicago. That’ll scare the hell out of anybody.

Did the nuns have rulers?

They had attitude. There wasn’t any actual contact, but there was a lot of "Do it my way."
 

The movie Caddyshack is well remembered as a slice of pop culture history.

It’s astonishing and especially if you were there. You would have thought we’d never get this done.

The dynamic between Ted Knight and Rodney Dangerfield is incredible.

Totally off the cuff. He’s sitting around at lunch asking, "Am I ok? Am I ok? This is my first movie." They improvised, but it was very real. Ted was in there trying to do the scene. I heard Mary Tyler Moore talking yesterday and she said, "Great comedy is not about cooperation."

I had heard that Ted was a nice person, but challenging to work with.

He was a nice person, but I didn’t have too many scenes with him. I was a smartass anyway. After awhile I became that person on & off the set. They created the character of Lacey by pushing me into a corner and it just evolved. I think eventually Ted got fed up with their shenanigans. Rodney was in the fray. More than anybody he was in there.
 

How did they manipulate you into the character of Lacey?

Manipulation was a nice way of putting it. The first two scenes were the hardest, unbelievable things they could ask me to do. The first scene I did was the fake high dive.

I’m legally blind without my contacts. I’ve got a -7 power lens. If you put my glasses on you could see Venus. I don’t swim and I don’t dive. If I hit the water at that speed my lenses would have shot through the back of my head. I had to go up there blind.

They used special effects for that one?

They did a damn good edit for that one. I had to walk the board blind and jump knowing that when I hit the water I couldn’t swim.

I can’t see without my lenses. Jumping in is the way you had to do it with this film. There was no thinking about it. The second scene was the nude scene which I agreed to do. They kept trying to push me to shoot the scene for Playboy. There were a couple of problems with that. I was the Irish Spring girl at the time and my dad would have dropped dead.

I said no I’m very flattered & thank you, but I can’t do it. They sent the photographer anyway. One of the producers called me between takes and told me, "You’re fucked in this business and you will never work again. I’m taking away your paid ads and your billing." Did you notice that I’m not on the poster?

You were relatively new to the business.

It’s my first job and I’m getting these threats. I told them I want four people on the set during my nude scene: I want the Director of Photography, the Director, the other Actor I’m working with, and me. Until we get that done we’re not getting a shot off. It’s your call.

It sounds crazy.

It was insane. The fact that this was a work experience at all defies imagination. I told them this is the way it’s going to be done. They threatened me and took away everything, but 25 years later the fans still remember the movie. It’s some kind of cool validation that they took it all away, but people who remember the film didn’t forget me.

He was flying by the seat of his pants. He’s doing these scenes such as the whole Dalai Lama scene. Much of what was done was nowhere near what was in the script. The original script is about the Caddy. All the boys were very different and a lot of fun.  The key was to stay on my toes because, more often than not, there was a camera rolling. 

What about Chevy Chase?

He has a dry wit. We had an interesting dynamic. We were fighting during our romance scene. We bumped heads a few times. Okay, we bumped heads a lot. I don’t usually go to dailies. I did go to the dailies that day and so did Chevy because we thought we were in trouble. That’s when we did the oil massage scene.

They filmed Caddyshack over a month?

The whole Caddyshack filming was 4 to 6 weeks. Then they came back and did the Gopher stuff. They got back all these brilliant vignettes, but they didn’t tie together. There’s no story there without the Gopher. Can you imagine them throwing all that film away? In fact they did throw lots of it away.

I thought okay this is how films are done. I’ll play along and it was crazy! First of all, those drugs make you think you’re more brilliant than you are. There were a lot of things going on in 1979 in Florida. It was a part of the time. I think Ted Knight was the only one not involved on any level.

Did you have any other crushes during Caddyshack or Tron?

Crushes? You mean with my co-actors. Always!

You dated one of the guys from Caddyshack.

Scott Colomby who played Tony D'Annunzio. He was one of the actors in it that I ended up seeing for a couple of years. It was originally about the Caddies. Boy was he pissed off. He’s one of those serious actor types. It’s just acting!

You mean getting emotionally involved if not more so. In Caddyshack I was sitting in a car after breakfast with one of the actresses in the film. I don’t like competing with other women. I’m going to put together my wish list and you put together yours. Then we’ll stay out of each others territory. In my upcoming book I’m not going to say who I got to know on more than a first name basis. Let’s just say I’m an overachiever. I had a list of three & I got three.

You know it’s like the old saying from the 1960’s. If you remember the 1960’s you weren’t really there. Much of that was true for Caddyshack.

I was in the first one. The funny one.

Being the pretty young woman I’m sure you had to fend off the guys on the set.

I’m listening to you and I’m thinking, "What the hell is he talking about?" I wasn’t raised pretty. I wasn’t told that. I got cast in that and I’m so confused. I was a disc jockey behind the microphone. The reason I became a disc jockey is because I had a stutter and I took a couple of speech classes. I was a lousy speaker, but a good writer.

I had a speech class that got me into broadcasting, and that got me into acting as an accident. I flew out to California and I got an Irish Spring commercial in a month. Eight months later I got Caddyshack. I was listening to these guys and thinking they are crazy, but I’ll do this film.

I do. I got to kiss Chevy Chase and Michael O’Keefe in Caddyshack. In Tron I kissed Jeff Bridges and Bruce Boxleitner. This is a wonderful job. I highly recommend it.

The candy bar in the pool scene is classic.

The Murray boys have a wicked sense of humor.

I didn’t realize that Bill Murray has 3 or 4 brothers.

He has a big Irish Catholic family.

I think it’s a riot of a line. That was Lacey trying to get a rise out of Ty. She was trying to see what he would say.

In Caddyshack your clothing is tight fitting.

I know. That was the year women had burned their bras. There’s a whole reason she was like that. I just drew the line as to what I was going to do and not do. That’s what pissed so many people off, but that’s what made Lacey.

Is it hard being known as a sex object when there’s much more to you?

It’s tough when people respond to you that way. At first you don’t mind because it’s part of the job. It’s a double edge sword. People love and hate you for the same reason. It gets a little tiresome when people think she’s obviously this, that, and the other thing. You think, "Get over it and grow a brain."

I did the job, I was happy to do it, and I moved on. The funny thing is I never got the credit I was promised or deserved. The producer John Peters was very pissed off at me and my agent didn’t stand up for me. They took away my paid ads and my billing. I never got any promotion from it because they were angry with me.

I wasn’t even invited to the premiere. Doug Kenney, one of the writers of Caddyshack who subsequently died. He was a good writer and a sweet guy he heard I wasn’t invited and paid for two first class tickets out of his own pocket to send me to the premiere in New York.

A role that you did 20 years ago can affect someone years later.

You have to see this letter I recently received. It’s the best letter I ever got. It’s from these guys fighting in Iraq:

As we have worked in the Middle East, Saudi Arabia these past 8 years, and are former military types, it is very hard to find or watch anything funny without violating some Islamic tenant or custom.

 We got our hands on "Caddyshack" and have not stopped laughing yet ... not only is the movie a piece of our past lives' experience, but remembering you again as the all American girl with brains, wit and humor brought us all memories of the good wholesome things in the USA we sorely miss here.

A few of the new military types down here from Iraq just came up for air too ...the one thing we all agreed on though was no matter the generations apart, Cindy Morgan is the girl we all hoped to find and marry. For me as a retired mustang naval officer, you really were never that far removed. In some of the worst situations and places you could imagine, I could always quote some line from Caddyshack to break the stress in the crew, and keep close to me the thought that somewhere back there was a Cindy Morgan for all of the troops, if we only could get back alive. I kept the original vivacious lady, no look alike, in that special place that all memories go when things look bad or dead-ended.

So watching you again stroked fond thoughts of better and yes, worse times in my life. But for the brave soldiers in that hell-hole up north, you became that special, special girl in all of their lives for a few laughable and pleasurable moments in their tortured quiet places. Now when an actress or any woman can do that spanning a generation or two, she indeed is an actress for the ages, and the haunting ghost of what I (and probably we) looked for after coming home from our private hell called Vietnam...and more followed but always you trailed along in the fondest, warmest memories of this Salty Dog.

Thanks for being you, Cindy...with warmest regards & wishes...Joe (Cdr/USN retired).

How humbling is it for someone to send a letter like that?

It took me a few days to answer him. I was thunderstruck by it. His letter was articulate, it was feeling. I was just flattened by it. If you get one letter like that in a lifetime you’re done. That’s all you need to hear. I can die a happy woman.

This guy explains the way a movie or image gets into a person’s mind that this is an image someone is clear about. It becomes part of our culture. When a fan feels like that it just knocks you right in the heart. You think I’m so glad I did something right. It’s an honor to be supportive in any form.

 

You’re drastically different characters in Caddyshack and Tron.

I do these fan conventions and two out of three people don’t know that’s me in both Caddyshack & Tron. They both have elements of me in them. Lacey in Caddyshack is offensive in biblical proportions. Lora/Yori from Tron is more like the radio or communications nerd I was in college.

The first audition was just the director, Stephen Lisberger and Jeff Bridges. I think I remember a camera, so it was a casual screen test, if there is such a thing. I felt a little weird, but not nervous. (My nerves deep-six me all the time, so that was a good thing.) The second "audition" was really a meeting with one of the Disney VP's. He asked me what my political affiliations were, and I told him I had none.  I got the job. Debra Harry was up for my role too. Tron was the first CGI (Computer Graphics Imaging) movie ever done.

Very frame by frame. It took 10 months in post production. Literally all these folks knew me. They would ask me did I know so and so. They were one of the animators on the film and saw me everyday for 8 months. I did this film in 6 weeks and didn’t see the movie until it came out much later.

It was a black set and we got the script. I thought, "Okay, this doesn’t make sense. I’ll just show up and do it." You get there and you’re in this skin type costume. Steven Lisberger would say okay you’re on the Solar Sailor and you’re crossing the game sea. It was a black table with felt on it.

I would say, "What a minute. What the hell are you talking about? I’m flying a ship. What does it mean?" You’re just pushing buttons and moving things. The animators will put it in later on.

You put yourself in that willing suspension of disbelief. You imagine you’re a little kid playing the games you use to play. For me I wanted to believe I was there.

Did you ever meet the Tron musical composer, the Transgendered Wendy Carlos?

No, and I was sorry about that.  I'd heard some pretty cool things about Wendy Carlos, and loved her music.  As per usual, most people involved in post production "get to know" me a lot better than I get to know them. 

No way in hell. I loved working on TRON with Jeff and Bruce, but I had a heck of a time with the dialogue sometimes. "Oh TRON, I knew there wasn't a circuit built that could hold you" was a line that I begged Stephen Lisberger to let me skip.  Years later it's pretty darn campy.

In fact Tron was the film that broke me up with Scott Colomby. Every time I got a film we broke up. I think Tron was the last straw.

Maybe he thought, “That’s not fair you’re doing a multi-million dollar Disney movie and I’m doing Porky’s.”

The way he heard about Porky’s is when he heard the script dropping to the floor and I said, “I don’t want to play that role.”

Porky’s is a classic in its own way. He’s one of those seriously trained actors. The thing is I’m not discounting that. That’s where good balance comes from. You need people who are serious. I like to play it for real.

Was Yori done in binary or Digital?

It’s in the eye of the beholder.

Did you have a favorite retro videogame you liked to play back in 1982?

I was crazy for Space Invaders, Pinball, and Trivial Pursuit.  I had a problem.

Growing up where you a fan of any rock groups?

I was a deranged fan. You could send me a list and I’ll check off every guy.

What are Tron fans like at the Conventions you attend?

Hey we're ALL a little crazy at those conventions.  I was an absolute idiot when I met Peter Tork from The Monkees at Chiller.

Designing Playstation games, but of course she’d have Yori doing all the footwork.

The glasses were there because I wear glasses. Like I told you without the glasses I’d be legally blind. One day I came into makeup with glasses and Steven Lisberger saw me and said you look great in glasses. When I’m doing the film I’m wearing my contacts, but with fake glasses over it.

Did you know much about computers back then?

I have a radio background. I kept going up to Steven Lisberger and going, "I don’t know what I’m saying. If I don’t know what I’m saying how is anyone else going to know?" He replied, "The movie is not for them."

Then I said, "Well, but what if no one comes to see the movie?" Steven said, "That’s okay". He had a very strong sense of integrity. He’s very true to his vision and it’s held up over time.

We’re over there working and as usual I’m not listening to anything anyone has to tell me. I had to go to point A to point B to get to the makeup trailer. I saw this little rope so I stepped over it and I start walking. All of a sudden I hear someone yell, "Stop!" There was some sort of spill or leak there. I had to freeze and someone comes over and takes the shoes I was wearing. I had walked right into a radioactive something.

I can’t imagine how they got permission to film there. It was so amazing to walk into there. About 9/10ths of it is in the ground. That really big door was a really big door. We could have shot that anywhere, but the fact that we got into there is amazing.

Did some people come out from the lab and eat a Hamburger with you?

Yea, but they kept us pretty separated. There was a little bit of separation, but it was pretty cool.

Jeff is a sweet, charming, down to Earth, bright, wonderful, and funny guy.

Bruce Boxleitner?

Bruce was born and raised in the same part of the country as me. We had a lot of the same background. He was this great looking guy. He’s a big guy. He’s very solid, very steady, knows his lines, shows up on time, and is always prepared to do the job.

The three of us got along so well in Tron. We were in the Disney Commissary in our costumes. I don’t know what Bruce said, but I was across the table. I think I had Bruce by the throat & said, "How can you say that about me?" We were cracking up. Bruce is big. Clearly I’m not hurting the guy. We had a good friendly dynamic. You can’t write that stuff and you can’t buy it.

Did you ever meet Bruce’s wife Melissa Gilbert? We here at retroCRUSH are big fans of Little House and we’d love to interview her.

I did meet Melissa when there was a screening of Tron at the El Capitan in Los Angeles. She’s so nice and great. Actresses don’t always hit it off with other actresses. She said, "Oh you’re going to go outside. I’ll hold your bag for you." She’s so cool. I love Melissa. She’s the president of the Screen Actors Guild for God’s sake.

I did the voiceover in the videogame. It’s the fans that put me in business. I originally wasn’t in the Tron 2.0 game. My character was killed off. My fans wouldn’t have it. I was brought back as Ma3a.

Right after that I did, "Bring them back alive" with Bruce. It rolled into a TV show that was hellish work. It was probably some of my better work. The hours were ridiculously long and the stunts were outside. Not only was I doing the same stunts as the guys, but I was wearing the damn high heeled, open toed shoes and wearing shorts. The men got to wear Khaki pants and boots.

They said, "Look at the woman running up & down the hill in those shoes." That’s no joke it hurts! I did on average of a pilot a year.

That freshened up his character a bit. I'm starting to think I'm always a version of "the other woman" or some femme fatale.  Yep, I stole Chase from Maggie, and it was fun.  Hey, everybody's got a job to do, right?

For that show they had readings where the whole cast & producers would show up. I remember the first table reading. One by one the actors & producers started walking out. By the end of the hour I was alone with five people down from 20. It was because of what I was doing on the show. That’s why my hair was red and not blonde.

They didn’t want me looking too much like anyone in the cast. I use to wear headphones in the makeup trailer. One of the actresses would ask me, "What’s it like kissing Robert Foxworthy?" I’d reply, "It beats working for a living. I’m happy."

Robert was a big Teddy Bear. He was fun to work with. I’d come in with all these wild eye harebrained schemes on how to do a scene. He’d say, "Yea, whatever…lets do it." He was great to work with.

I remember one time I came in for one table reading and there was no place to sit. I couldn’t find a chair. Who gets up but Jane Wyman. She was my adversary in the show. She gets up and says, "I’ll get you a chair." She was making a big statement. She’d always be playing cards with the crew.

There’s one scene where I walk in and throw a newspaper at her and slap her. I apologized. I told her I’m sorry. She said, "Oh Honey. You just do your job." Of course I didn’t physically connect with her.

The secret service guys would come on when her sons were on the set.

The nighttime soap opera was fun. I got to slap three people on that show. I slapped Robert Foxworthy, Robert Stack, and Jane Wyman.

You’re only as good as your last job and your last job better have been yesterday. You stop taking it so damn seriously it gets a lot easier.

My work in "Bring them back alive" I’m pretty proud of. I’m doing an indie this summer called "Open Mikers" with Gary Woods about standup comics. I’m just starting to see the pages now. What they have me doing is playing two versions of myself. Onstage I’m this loveable person Cindy Morgan and backstage I’m this bitch from hell Lacey Underall.

Have you dated many well known people?

I’m a serial monogamous. I’ve gone from one serious relationship to another. I just can’t find the right man.

It’s tough. It’s like that line from Rita Hayworth, "They go to bed with Gilda and wake up with me." Even if I’ve known the person they see me as Lacey. Even if I’m related to them they see me as Lacey. It’s pretty darn spooky. My career has gone a lot better since I’ve eighty-sixed anybody who has been related or I’ve dated. I’m doing a lot better now. It does become a hazard.

Life becomes a business. Back off from all the relationship stuff. This is what I meant about getting away from anybody related or that I’ve dated. I’ve been engaged a bunch of times.

The worse, most expensive mistakes I’ve ever made were getting married.

It’s like being bit by a Gila monster. I understand they have to be struck by lightning to let go. That’s what these guys are like. Let go! I’ve walked out with nothing a couple of times. It can be very expensive. I take the best and move on.

I’m probably fanatic about trying to stay healthy. There’s time in all of our lives where we have to press the edge of the envelope too far. My dad died in 1996. Just before he died he paged me out of the gym and said, "I’m dying and it’s your fault. Have a nice workout."

My dad was my best friend and it was hard to hear. He didn’t want to go. I stopped working out in 1996. That’s a long time. That’s nine years of not going back. I’m starting to train again because I’m going back to work.

I was told I was dying a couple of years ago. I had a tumor and it took me a year and a half to get it removed. By the time I did it was a half a pound. I gained some weight. I went on a Pizza and Beer diet at that point. I figured if I’m going. I’m going my own way.
 

It was a rare tumor. There’s like ten in record. It was completely benign and I didn’t die. I was under a death sentence for about a year and a half. It was harsh. I think that’s why things are going amazingly well now. Once you look death in the face what are you going to do?

It’s all good news.

You’re still open to love?

I’m a huge romantic. I listen to love songs all day long. That’s what gets me running up and down the street.

You were in an all girls High School?

I was in a tough program in High School. They took the top 10% out when we were freshmen. They kept us together for four years and graded us on a Bell Curve.

I wanted to go to Illinois Institute of Technology and become an Engineer, but when I went to open house it was all guys. I kind of got scared. I was a little freaked out. I got over that obviously. I was a geek.

Not yet. One of my best friends is gay and I keep telling her I can go with you. I can hang out with you. She says, "Cindy no". I tell her I’m an actress I can play the part. She just laughs at me.

I think you’re a little too pretty to play that.

I’ve gone to her club in New York a couple of times. They do have pretty women there. I thought I could pull it off. I have a lot of good friends who are gay.

How many times have I been on the set and a guy has reached inside my bra and re-adjusted things. I’m like whatever. One time I was at a wardrobe fitting for a show I was doing called Beverly Hills Bunts.

I had to change into different wardrobe outfits. Only in Los Angeles is this an insult. One time I said to a guy, "Clearly you’re straight. You’re leaving the room." He wanted me to change in front of him, but he was straight. Normally you don’t pay attention to it. There’s no time to even get into all that.

It’s so good to have a trusting relationship with someone and you ask, "How does this look?" and they’ll really tell you.

We’d go dancing and have a lot of fun. I tried getting married a bunch of times. I had to try. I wanted to have kids and I wanted to have a family. It wasn’t in the cards. It costs me everything I had. One of the times I got married I tried to stay with it with someone who was totally wrong for me.

I wasn’t in love. I just wanted a family & the clock was ticking.

I thought so it’s just that every time he opened his mouth I wanted to shoot myself in the head.

This guy was the real actor. For a whole year he played he was somebody else. A year after we met I got married and he was someone completely other than the person I met.

They tell you to stay away from the people in the business.

I tried people in the business, out of the business, different businesses.

Ultimately in the long run that’s what matters are the fans. It’s not going to be the producers who took your face off the poster or the casting directors who have a bad attitude or the
family member that got psycho on you. The fans are the people
who keep you in business.

I was in college and I took a second Psychology course. The student assistant who I was doing lab work with walked me home. He gave me a kiss goodnight and told me I didn’t know how to kiss. He spent about an hour and a half teaching me.

I didn’t close any deals so to speak until I was 21. By the time I was 21 I looked at my life and said that’s it. I looked at the guy I was dating and said, "Okay tonight is the night." and he said, "What?"

That’s the whole thing about Lacey. Sex can be intimidating.

It can be intimidating, but your character in Caddyshack doesn’t come off that way.

She tries to be just a little. Women and men can use sex as a weapon.

It’s one of my favorite things. I love it!

You see that’s why I put on the weight.

I like a guy with great eyes that means they have a great soul. A great sense of humor and if he is good at being himself. I know it sounds cliché, but someone who is happy and comfortable in their own skin. That’s attractive.

"Everyone I know is nuts!" I go about proving it. I don’t just leave the title out there. Once you accept the fact that everyone is crazy things get a lot easier.

Nine out of ten times people are trying to strike you down. Why? What’s the big deal? I did the job. What’s the problem? There’s a lot of weird dynamics. I try not to listen to that. I was never in it for the power, money, or fame. I was in it because I liked it and hopefully it shows in the work.

What current projects are you working on?

I’m working on a book, a reunion golf tournament, an article for Sports Illustrated, some public speaking, and a film in September. 

I always liked telling stories whether it’s acting out a role or writing something. I’d like that to show in the work. When someone makes me crazy it’s not worth it. I took a few years off. I had a death, I had a divorce. I’m lucky enough to be back in it without showing a hundred miles of bad road. I’m back and doing what I like to do.
 

If you'd like to find out more of what's going on with the lovely Cindy Morgan, or buy one of her autographed photos, check out her website at: www.cindy-morgan.com